(Or: ♪♪What are going to do about Maria ....?♪♪ And Jose?)
[A note to the reader: you will encounter random line breaks in the following. I'm trying to stomp them all out, but every time I do, BLOGGER's editor adds new ones. Please bear with me.]
As you may know, I'm run an immigration law office. A very small, one-guy immigration law office. Just me. No partners. No secretary. No staff.
I specialize in family immigration and immigration defense: I file papers to bring people over legally. I also help defend those who have already entered legally and have gotten into trouble with the law. (You can lose your green card and be deported for any of a VERY long list of relatively minor crimes, you know.)
So: Do I help EEELEGUL ALIENS? That's like asking a criminal attorney if he "helps the guilty." If my client is truly EEELEGUL I can't do anything for him....
But. Being an immigration attorney is hard to explain in some circles, particularly among some of my fellow conservatives, or so-called conservatives.
There are those who think that I cannot possibly be a "true Conservative" if I "help them EEEVIL EEELEGUL ALIENS WHO ARE TAKING OVER OUR COUNTRY." (Sic.) (Oh so very much.)
I'm posting a conversation I recently held on Facebook between my good self, and two other individuals, "Joe Sixpack" and "Jay Random," neither of whom were known to me at the time of the conversation. I've changed their names to protect the guilty.
I'm posting it in full as-is here because this illustrates, in a microcosm, of the great divide in the Conservative/GOP/Tea Party movement. While all Tea Party supporters are united in opposing the Obammunists and wanting economic freedom restored to this country, we're split between those who want NO AMNESTY AND WANT EVERY GODDAM EEELEGUL TO GET SENT HOME NOW ....and those who don't.
The precise subject of the day was a discussion a friend of mine was hosting on FB: "Does ANYBODY out there find ANYTHING they agree with Obama about?" We join the
conversation in progress. I've made certain spelling corrections and deleted certain expletives, but what follows is an accurate representation of the debate.
· RLK: ....the only thing, the ONLY thing I support Obama on is --whisper it-- *amnesty*. We're never, EVER going to round the illegals up and send them in boxcars-to-the-borders. We will never treat the illegals like the Babylonians did the Israelites. They're here, so we'd better combine amnesty with assimilation. AND YES, CLOSE THE SOUTHERN BORDER....
· Jay Random: If the border were locked down first I wouldn't have a problem with conversion of the illegals caught inside. Give them six months after the fence is built to apply for citizenship and if we find an illegal after six months who hasn't applied they get booted out. If that counts as supporting Obama on something then I guess I'm guilty too.
· Joe Sixpack: Tried that in 1986. it brought the flood. Amnesty of any kind will bring 3 times as many more for us to deal with.
· Jay Random: Joe They didn't have the border locked down in 1986. That's a very important step Before granting amnesty.
· Joe: NO [EXPLETIVEDELETED] AMNESTY... Not now, not ever... You have NO clue what you're talking about.
· Jay Random: Joe Well one of us doesn't know what their talking about, I'll grant you that part of your assertion.
· RLK: Tried that in 1986. it brought the flood. >> You have read it completely wrong. We lost control of the borders in 1991. 1991 is 18 years after Roe v. Wade, when as a result of which our graduating high school classes dropped nationwide by 33 to 45% overnight.
· RLK: Whence the illegal alien problem? Abortion. Incoming illegals are about 50% of each years' missing cohort. Check the demographics. (Fact is, everyone in America who ever got an abortion got an "amnesty"--for killing their unborn.)
· RLK: @Joe: I am an immigration attorney--a conservative, tea-party-supporting, pro-Palin, pro-life immigration attorney. And I used to work [as a
GOP staffer for] for the House Subcommittee on the Census where I learned demographics at political gunpoint. Not only do I know what I am talking about, I
daresay I know far more than most on the subject.
· RLK: We will NEVER round 'em up and send 'em home. We will NEVER 'turn the screws and make 'em leave.' They're here. They're staying here. We better Americanize them [before it is too late].
· Joe: I frankly don't care what your qualifications are, where you worked, or what your degree is in... If you really think allowing illegals to just become citizens is a good idea, then I daresay I KNOW you don't know what you're talking about.... And "attorney" isn't impressive. The only thing a JD proves is that you're capable of temporarily storing and regurgitating information, that's all. It's not impressive, and I know far too many dim-witted lawyers to have much confidence in your abilities. Get a degree in engineering, then I'll listen to what you have to say... at least then I'll know you've had to use your brain at least once in your life.
The only thing you give a shit about is drumming up business for yourself, and it's disgusting. At least have the balls to say "I just want to make money off them" then maybe you'll at least have my respect for telling a shred of the truth... an unfamiliar concept to you, I'm sure.
· RLK: ...I also was in Bosnia for two years where I saw first hand ehat "ethnic cleansing" means. Do YOU know what the consequences of what you want are? Do you?
· Jay Random: Joe "lost control in 1991" No, we never had it. They were still crossing illegally in 1990, 1989, et cetera.
· Joe: Yes, I do... I want them returned to their own goddamn country... That isn't ethnic cleansing, it's deportation. God, what did you mail-order your JD????
· Joe: "Ethnic Cleansing" Are you [EXPLETIVEDELETED] kidding me?!?!?!
· RLK: I am as serious as a heart attack.
· RLK: You are right, though, it won't happen here. Your dream of sending them all home is impossible. We can't deport 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 people. How do you propose to do it? Be specific please.
· Joe: It's people like YOU, RLK, that are the problem... You cloak yourself under the guise of being a "true" conservative, yet you're not... You're the one that wants to just let them in. You care more about them than your own countrymen. I see you live in Michiganistan... god only knows how many terrorists you've shuffled in under our noses. Filth.
· Jay Random: Joe @RLK; We are witnessing exactly what sort of behavior led to Joe's astounding ignorance. He's never going to learn anything new because he "knows" everything now, so join me in giving up on him.
· RLK: I love you too, Joe.
· RLK: Many of my clients are Muslim, Joe. They came here because they DON'T want to live under Islam. Do you know any Muslims? Or did you learn
everything you need to know about Islam on 9/11?
· Joe: Big words, Jay Random... what exactly am I ignorant about?? That I want illegal aliens shipped back to where they belong?? What's ignorant about that, son?
· RLK: Again, Joe: How do you SPECIFICALLY propose to force 30,000,000 people to up and leave at once?
· Joe: Apparently, RLK, you did NOT learn enough from 9/11.
· RLK: Google "Srebrenica," Joe.
· Joe: Who said at once??? Who put a timeline on it?? I don't care if it takes 10 years. We start with one, we finish when we're done.
· Jay Random: Joe p.s. (@RLK again) As much as I would support making citizens out of illegals after the border has been sealed, I don't see it ever actually happening because I don't see us ever succeeding at sealing the borders.
· Joe: Google "America", RLK... Stay on topic.
· RLK: Fine, Joe. Again, Joe: How do you SPECIFICALLY propose to force 3,000,000 people to up and leave at once?
· Joe: Again: Who said at ONCE?
· RLK: I am on topic. America is NOT about ethnic cleansing. We're about stopping ethnic cleansing.
· RLK: 30,000,000 / 10 years = 3,000,000 per year. Or 300,000 per month roughly.
· Joe: Who said anything about "Ethnic"?? I don't care if they're from Germany... If they're not here legally, they NEED TO GO.
· RLK: 90% of the illegals are Hispanic, Joe. You want to create Aztlan, try to scrape them all out. We'll have active separatism before you know it.
· Joe: How many cops do we have in this country, RLK?? Let them do their job... If they catch someone illegal, they deport them.
· Joe: So if a prison holds 100 people, and it just so happens that 90 criminals are hispanic, the prison is suddenly racist???
· RLK: Uh, due process, Joe, due process. Everybody UNDER THE CONSTITUTION has a right to a hearing before an immigration judge before they are ordered deported. We have 540 immigration judges nationwide, or say about 10 per state, roughly. (Michigan has 4 for 10,000,000 inhabitants.) It will take about 1000 years to give them due process which the CONSTITUTION requires.
· Joe: I don't care what race they are or what percentage of the illegal population is... This is about crime, not race. They're here illegally, that makes them criminals. What don't you get about this?
· Joe: Really??? So it's "Due process" when cops don't even bother arresting, or when ICE says "We're not coming for them... let them go"????
· RLK: Precisely. That is exactly what it is.
· RLK: ICE knows what you do not, that 34,000 ICE/USCIS workers nationwide cannot possibly round up 30,000,000 unless we act like the SS.
· Joe: So if I murder someone, and the cops decide NOT to arrest me, just because it's not the politically correct thing to do, that's due process?? And you're a "lawyer"???
· RLK: Murder is a crime. Illegal presence is a civil infraction, a tort.
· Joe: No, RLK, it's a crime.
· Joe: It's an arrestable, indictable, imprisonable offense. That you don't know this, scares me.
· RLK: To quote an ignoramus of my acquaintance, God, what did you mail-order your JD????
· Jay Random: Joe @RLK; I have a lot of respect for the level of patience you have. It's like watching you talk to a angry little yap dog.
· RLK: ILLEGAL REENTRY AFTER REMOVAL is a crime. Illegal presence is a tort. The immigration courts are not criminal courts (I wish they were; my
clients would have far more constitutional rights than they do, like a right to counsel and the right to not be deported via TV set).
· Joe: Big mouth for a little man, Jay Random. Real big mouth.
· RLK: @Jay Random: I have experience dealing with the ignorant on this subject.
· Joe: Yeah...lawyers and immigrants. You're surrounded by idiots, RLK.
· RLK: Not surrounded. Only to my immediate front.
· Joe: RLK, to be fair, I've yet to meet a smart lawyer. Closest I came to one was someone who, brilliant though he was at remembering laws, couldn't pass the one required math class and needed to hire me to tutor him to pass. It was tough work, but I finally got him to understand basic math.
· Joe: [EXPLETIVEDELETED EXPLETIVEDELETED] .. God I wish we could deport the lawyers first, then the illegals.
· Joe: I'm done here... blocking both of you ignorant fools. Useless [EXPLETIVEDELETED] waste of air, both of you.
· RLK: Thank you!
· Jay Random: Thank you!
Afterward: I'm aware that my invoking my experience -- as an immigration attorney, as a former GOP staffer on census issues, as a Bosnia peacekeeper -- make me sound like an insufferable jerk. Guilty as charged, I guess. However, the fact is, I've seen horrors that the vast majority of the ANTI EEELEGUL ALIEN crowd have not seen, and frankly, if they truly understood what it is that they want--and understood what it would truly take for them to achieve their aims--most would recoil in horror.
You will also note that Joe conflates EEELEGUL ALIENS of many categories into one giant pool of sameness. The fact is that EEELEGUL ALIENS come in several varieties:
* A. those who marry US citizen and don't get their paperwork fixed yet [NONCRIMINAL; their behavior is ABSOLUTELY not a crime];
* B. those who entered the United lawfully and overstayed their visas [again,
* C. those who entered the United States with, or later obtained, green cards, and then may have lost them from getting criminal* convictions [those with minor criminal convictions**, often those convicted of misdemeanors who have already been punished for their lawbreaking],
* D. those who enter the United States unlawfully without inspection [MISDEMEANANTS], and
* E. those who have commited major "Aggravated" Felonies and are all automatically deportable or those who have committed immigration fraud or set up criminal organizations to facilitate illegal engry (coyotes). These indeed are FELONS. These latter ARE criminals and do need to be deported.... but they make up less than 2% of all the EEELEGUL ALIENS WHO ARE TAKING OVER OUR COUNTRY (sic).
Joe would make all these categories = E. He doesn't care about their rights to due process; he'd deport them on sight without trial. He basically wants to round them all up, put them on train cars, and throw them out of America at gunpoint.
Joe is, in short, in favor of what amounts to yes, ethnic cleansing. He says he isn't, but this is what his saying means.
I should note for the record that Joe Sixpack is kinda right on one issue: yes, illegal entry is a crime. Under Title 8, United States Code, Section 1325, "illegal entry" is a crime, penalized thus. Title 8, United States Code, Section 1325. (Short version: illegal ENTRY is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail. Marriage fraud and running an illegal immigration ring are felonies for up to five years' imprisonment.)
IOW: those who EWI – enter without inspection – into the United States are misdemeanants and the criminal penalty for entering legally and not leaving is precisely ZIP. ZERO. NADA.
So, Mr. Sixpack: Are you willing to drive out 15 million or 20 million people because they may have committed .... a misdemeanor?
I didn't think so. And if you still do, I will fight you, and anyone who agrees with you. You want to commit a gross, naked evil against helpless people and what you advocate would cause an unhealing scar on the face of Lady Liberty.
And: If you, Mr. Joe Sixpack, think that defending EEELEGUL ALIENS makes me and evil scum sucking lawyer and a race traitor, it says far more about you than it does about me.
I'll be writing more on this subject in the days ahead.
*Does having a criminal conviction--even of a misdemeanor--make you a "CRIMINAL"? Well, I have one: I got into a rear-end accident in Virginia once, which is a misdemeanor. Does that make me a "criminal"? No. Leastwise I hope not. When we refer to "criminals", we generally mean those who make a career out of committing such crimes or who at least have committed a major felony. Exclusively. One "criminal conviction" does NOT make you a "criminal."
** If you're not a citizen, you can be deported for little more than spitting on the sidewalk. TRUE STORY: I once saw a man, a green card holder, deported for a $140 misdemeanor ticket. But that is a story... for another time.
ADDENDUM: My friend Don W posted the following on FB: "Dear Joe, you have misread the situation and misjudged RLK, whom I've know for 30 years. Applying to law school may indeed be tantamount to filing divorce papers on one's conscience and passing the bar exam equivalent to final decree but this is not the case with Richard. Rich does not seem to have any interest whatsoever in "drumming up business" or exploiting the immigration situation, as reflected in his fee schedule which ranges from "reasonable and customary" to "heavily discounted" to "waived entirely" much to the chagrin of his friends who would stick him with the bar tab more often if he would just go chase an ambulance or two. Richard does not venture a firm opinion on any matter that he does not have a firm grasp of.
"[Furthermore...] It would seem to belabor the obvious, even if you eliminate boxcars from the equation and purchased 12-20 first class tickets to Acapulco or Mexico City, are you under the impression that millions would just say "aw shucks" forsake their lives and property and get on board? Any regulation you would enforce at gunpoint would be "ethnic cleansing" in spirit if not definition. Misdemeanants at gunpoint?
"Have you considered the impact of deporting those brought here as children, educated in US schools, steeped in US culture, functionally adapted to American life...deportation would be unreasonable. These "illegals" may think they are Mexicano but they are de facto US, Mexico would be an exotic alien culture that they would be completely unprepared to cope with. Have you considered the economic impact of a hole 12-20 (30) million wide? Engineering requires some familiarity with systems analysis. Apply that skill deficit to that equation.
"PS I should have read the entire transcript I wouldn't have bothered. Citing expertise does not make you an "insufferable jerk" it just makes you informed."
(Shucks, Don, I'm blushin'.....)